Going through an infertility journey has so many dimensions and can really take a toll on our self worth, our happiness, our joy, and our ability to engage in our life day to day. I am extremely excited to have guest Rosie Milson here with us today. She is going to go through her journey and her mindset of how she has approached her infertility journey alongside her IVF experience and how she has been able to find joy and happiness along the way. I think that you’re going to find her interview today so uplifting and full of hope and encouragement and support. I’m very excited to have her here with us today. Roseanne Milsom is a certified life and self-love coach from Staffordshire. Her main focus is supporting women to help increase their sense of self-worth so that they can heal their relationships with themselves, understanding their true purpose and create a life that excites and fulfills them. As someone who has experienced a long journey with infertility, Rosie knows how these conditions can take over your life and affect your view of your body, your identity, and your overall sense of self-worth. After trying for children for many years and after many unsuccessful medical treatments, she eventually turned to a world of personal development and spirituality in search for answers in the mind rather than the body. It was here that she learned about the power of mindset, and she uses this in her coaching today. Aside from all of this, she is also a wedding celebrant, a trustee of local youth music charity, a board member of a dance theater company, and a singer and a keen Harry Potter fan. She lives in Stafford with her husband, Andy, and their beloved dog, Jax. I know you are all going to love Rosie today, so let’s go ahead and without further ado, let’s get started.

You’re listening to the PCOS Repair podcast, where we explore the ins and outs of PCOS and how to repair the imbalances in your hormones naturally with a little medical help sprinkled in. Hi, I’m Ashlene Korcek, and with many years of medical and personal experience with polycystic ovarian syndrome, it is my joy to watch women reverse their PCOS as they learn to nourish their body in a whole new way. With the power of our beliefs, our mindset, and our environment, and the understanding of our genetics, we can heal at the root cause.

Welcome back to the PCOS Repair podcast, where today we get to talk to Rosie, and she’s going to give us some amazing insights into her IVF journey and how that has really changed her outlook on herself worth and how she was able to, through that journey, really get in touch with how her mindset is affecting her daily activities and her happiness and she’s going to share with us today. This is really exciting to have someone come on the podcast today with us and share how she was able to do that to hopefully inspire you and to give you some hope, some comfort, some peace of mind as you continue your journey for better fertility, better health, and all the things that you are working so hard and trying to learn about with your PCOS. All right, Rosie, welcome. I’m so glad you are here.

Thank you. Thanks, Ashlene, I’m really glad to be here.

Would you mind starting by giving us a little background into your fertility journey so that we can have a better understanding as we have our conversation today?

Yeah, of course. So I started trying for children with my husband back in August 2014, so we’re coming up to our nine-year anniversary and we haven’t had a happy ending yet, but I’ll get to that a little bit further. But in terms of our journey, so we tried for a year, started having those initial tests. We were referred to a fertility clinic, In 2016 we underwent some more tests, we did Clomid for six or so months I’m not sure if you’d call it the same thing over in the US, but it’s based on ovulation induction. Then we tend to acupuncture and started some holistic stuff before we dived into IVF but eventually, after almost three years of trying, we went through our first round that was in August 2017. It was at that point that I found out I had low AMH, so low ovarian reserve, I think, is what I’m referred to and we only got two eggs on that round and they were fragmented, the embryo sadly didn’t take, I’d gone into it quite naively at that point. I just thought I didn’t know there was anything… I’m doing quote marks here wrong with me until the actually I’ve been stayed. For three years, I seemed it’s just something, maybe my husband, maybe something else. Being the type A personality that I am, after that, I did so much research. In January 2018, I underwent a complete lifestyle overhaul, I cut out alcohol and refined sugar for six months and I cut out cardio, I only used natural products, in my body, in my house, everything I read all the books, it starts with the egg, all those classics and started blogging my fertility journey on Instagram alongside, finding a whole community on there, as I’m sure a lot of the listeners have found as well. I thought that was going to be the magic pill. But then in June 2018, when we came to our round, I did get more eggs. I’d been put on a drug called DHEA, which is supposed to help the stimulation of more follicles when you have a low ovarian reserve. I did get more eggs, but that round was zero fertilization, so after six months of living like a monk and doing absolutely everything I could, it didn’t work, it was just devastating. I remember just two days after my younger sister messaging me to let me know she was six weeks pregnant with her second child. She’d had her first whilst I was trying as well and it was the lowest of the low, it was just awful. And then we regrouped, moved to a new clinic, did ICSI this time in March 2019, felt a bit more relaxed. That one didn’t work out either, but it wasn’t quite as devastating I was already starting to make some shift by that point. And in June 2019, that’s when I started… I’d done everything I physically could so that’s when I started looking for answers a bit more within in terms of mindset, I started researching law of attraction, spirituality, that kind of thing. I think there was an element of at first just being so desperate to try anything to make it happen, I consider myself a pretty spiritual person.

Do you feel like, too, because you went into it not even really understanding what was physically going on that you were dealing with a low AMH, do you feel like you got thrown into that medical model of this is what we have to offer, they don’t really talk about a lot of like you’re talking, even the holistic nutrition exercise products approach, but even more the mindset and that heart approach, the emotional approach. Do you feel like it set you up to be even more in your head about it, more frantic about it?

Yeah, 100 %. So much focus is on do everything physical you can, take all these supplements, do your acupuncture, do reflexology and by that time, my head was just a mess and there isn’t a lot of focus on that. So yes, as much as I was looking for other answers to try and attract my baby and I say I do have an element of spirituality, but I think I was also a bit like, I’ll do anything that works. I’ve tried all the physical, so where am I going to go next? Where’s my mindset? So I started reading books, starting to do that self-discovery part. I’ve always been quite interested in development, but I can’t say that by that point I ever really read much except fiction I hadn’t read a lot of non-conviction and it started opening up this whole new world to me, I’d had a fibroid throughout all of my IVF, which is like a non-cancerous growth in the womb, just in case anybody… I don’t want to assume anything and that was removed in November 2019 and I found out, even though my clinics had all told me that wouldn’t have made a difference to implantation, when the surgeon took it out, he was like, It absolutely would it was the size of an orange.

Yeah, definitely.

It was within the wall of my wing lining, whereas my clinics hadn’t thought that it was and in December 2019, we found out… Sorry, this is quite long. I’m trying to shorten it.

No, you’re fine. This is really helpful because everyone’s been going through their own journey and to hear somebody else has been going through it, too. Even in that, there’s comfort in that, like you said, finding community on Instagram, it’s an important part of this.

It is. But yes, in December 2019, we actually found out that this whole time, my husband had an underlying sperm issue, he had high DNA fragmentation, which is like high DNA damage to his sperm. Regardless of everything that I’d done and my own biological issues, it probably never would have worked anyway and I had questioned the clinic a number of times, should we test my husband’s sperm? Because some of his standard sperm analysis were a bit borderline and they’d always said, No, your eggs are the problem which was frustrating but there’s no point getting… I let that go quite quickly and people were like, I would be so mad, I was like, I can’t change it. It is what it is. There is nothing that’s going to come from me going head up about that. So anyway, We moved to top urologist sorted my husband’s sperm out and in October 2020, I had a chemical pregnancy, a natural chemical pregnancy, which is when you’re only really pregnant for a few days, so you get a line on the test and then it fades and that was an absolute beacon of hope for me, some people would think, Oh, you must be devastated you were almost there and not and yeah, there’s an element of that, but you’ve got to think by that point, I’ve been trying for six years that was the first time I’d seen it. That was the first time it made it tangible, it made it possible and I couldn’t help but feel that the shift that I’d gone through in terms of my mindset and my energy around it had something to do with it. I’m not saying that’s the only piece, having the fibroid removed, having my husband sort his sperm out was probably a factor and we’ve been trying naturally ever since and we haven’t, as far as I know, achieved that. I stopped testing all the time because, again, that was another thing that I think you can find quite triggering. So yeah, and here we are today. It’s March 2023 and I used not March, it’s April, I think, when this will be going out but I still have that faith and hope that children will be part of our lives, but we haven’t done any treatment we are still actively trying and just staying in that level of faith and hope, but living my life at the same time.

Well, I think that, I guess my next question is really, can you speak to how much… Because I had it for a very short window of time. But how much this takes over your life and at some point, being able to combine the still keeping that hope that you’re keeping that mindset of hope and openness and trying to conceive while at the same time not having it consume every part of you, your entire life and all of your happiness. That’s something where we don’t know when it will happen for each individual. There is an element of worry of the “if” too. But in the midst of all of that, how much of our life can we let this engulf before we take our own power back of our mind and being able to enjoy our day?

Yeah 100%. Like it does take over your life unbelievable amounts. I remember walking with my husband, I think we were walking the dog, and I just said to him, and this was only a couple of years ago, I just said to him, I feel like it’s literally in everything I do, everything I breathe, every single week and second, because I’d put it at such a central part of my life and my identity and every single choice that I made you know I wouldn’t even drink tap water, like that was the level at which… So if you’re constantly looking at everything you put in your body, and I’m sure women with PCOS will have the same because there’s all that insulin resistance and stuff you need to do to work to right hormone balance and not only is it always constantly in your mind from the lifestyle choices that you’re making your diet, your exercise, but it’s also everywhere you look. When you get to a certain age, every time you open your Facebook page, there’s another baby scan, another baby shower. I literally said to myself, I feel like I can’t escape, it’s in absolutely everything that I do. In terms of how you shift from that and shift from that energy, there were really a few key steps for me in doing that, one was this idea that to stay hopeful, you have to believe it’s a possibility for you, but you have to let go of the timeline and the plan that you had for yourself. I know that’s so easy to say. like the longer that you hold on to this idea that, oh, well, it worked for them in this way, and this is how it should go, and I should be… Why should you? Why is that the way? and who’s to say that is even the best way? It’s that element of letting go, of letting go of letting go of that control and realizing, as I said at the beginning, you can’t necessarily control, or there’s only a certain amount of the physical side that you can control, but how you react and how you feel around something and the energy that you’re feeding into it is something that you can control. So for me, it was shifting my energy and my view around it because everything that was to do with fertility for me was stress, was jealousy, was bitterness, was control, was sadness, and judgment and I realized that having that around, being absolutely bitter and angry at every friend that just managed to get pregnant, and avoiding baby showers, avoiding spending time with my nieces and nephews or any of the children, you realize, whether you have a tendency to be voodoo or not, your energy around babies is hate, hate, hate, hate, avoid, avoid, avoid, jealousy, jealousy, jealousy, bitter, bitter, bitter and if that’s what you’re associating with what you want, that’s not good and it’s going to feel even more separate from you than it already is. Whereas actually, if you can look on at something with the energy of desire and happiness and hope, it’s going to feel a hell of a lot closer to you and you’re going to feel a lot better. As I say, even taking the wheelstraping, just generally to feel jealousy, bitterness, it eats away at your soul and when I realized to myself, I have a choice of how I want to look at these things. I have a choice that when I hold my friend’s baby for the first time, I can do that with the energy of, Oh, this is amazing, I can’t wait until this is mine. Not looking at it going, this should be mine, I can’t stand this, my heart’s about to break and that is no judgment we’re all at that point in a certain point of time, but the reason that you’re there is because either you’re attaching some meaning to your fertility struggle that isn’t necessarily true like, but I should have this, why isn’t it working for me? What does this mean about me? I’m not deserving. Maybe I’m not meant to be a mother, maybe this is karma, I thought all of those things.

The reality in any given day is the reality. But driving ourselves crazy with those negative deep thoughts, it doesn’t help. You’re saying it’s so much better. But yeah, this is powerful to be able to… When you said, we have the power to choose how we feel about these things and how we approach these things. That’s just pure gold.

Yeah. I mean, it’s not an easy choice to believe things. It took me a long time, but it’s true, though and it’s a harsh truth to think about and I say sometimes you can say, well, it’s not that easy. But really, it is a choice, it’s just a choice you have to keep choosing and the more you choose it, and the more you feel the benefit of it. I love the fact that now I can spend time with my nephews and just appreciate how adorable and hilarious they are without that like sadness and jealousy and knowing that it’s ruining my friendships and my relationship with my family, it’s so freeing and it comes from a sense of believing that I am either going to have my happy ending or I’m going to have the ending that is meant for me and it’s not about a cop-out. It’s not about what will be, will be. Like I say, I’m still trying. But I think that hardest bit, and I underlined it here on my notepad, because I know it’s the bit I struggled with most, was that surrender like I could cultivate a belief and a hope, I could visualize holding my baby in my arms. I could do all of those positive mindset, energetic stuff that makes it… I can meditate, I can do all of these things. But truly, surrender, truly being happy with the timeline and just letting go of that control. I think that’s the key of it, not just being something that you’re ticking off, Oh, yeah, I’m doing the mindset piece, I’ve done this and I’ve surrendered to the outcome and I released jealousy a bit in this, and then expecting it, Well, where’s my baby? I’ve done it all now.

Yes, exactly. Because that’s on the surface, it didn’t go as deep as the true piece and the surrender that you’re talking about.

And another thing that helped me was because I made it, I put my career on hold, I wouldn’t book a holiday in case I got pregnant the next month. I wouldn’t book a spa weekend for a couple of months time. So if I got pregnant, I wouldn’t be able to get in the spa. Everything was done, I don’t want to leave my job because they’ve got great maternity pay here and then when I realized that life wasn’t really happening, I was like, Right, I’m taking my life off hold because that’s what I’d done and when I did that, I started refocusing on other areas of my life because I think the thing is, when you’re going through a fertility struggle, it becomes your central identity. Like I said, every decision you make is around it and you make your struggle your identity and blogging my journey on Instagram was at the time, a really great experience because I found a whole community of women who understood how I felt and were really supportive. But in another way, it just made it even more my date because I was logging on a hundred times a day and then you’ve got your polarizing feelings there because you’re seeing a load of women go through IVF who absolutely deserve their baby, but then you see everyone graduating. Obviously, I sadly was one of the people that would see join and be at the same point in my journey then they would have their baby and then they’d go on and then another round of people would notice them coming in and then they would go on. So whilst it was a very useful and amazing community of women, just so much respect and it comes with its own battles and further infiltrates into your identity as well. When I took a step back a little bit from that and I changed jobs, I was like, right, I’m ready for senior management now, I changed jobs, So I just kinda refocus my life and started finding joy and purpose in other things and just not making fertility the central point of my identity and I took the time to appreciate how, and it might sound a bit skewed, but how it had benefited my life because I discovered this side of mindset and spirituality that had just completely transformed where I was. But even stuff like… I suffered with IBS and the diet stuff that I’ve been through. I completely healed my gut. I discovered yoga and meditation. I managed to start balancing my cycles because they were a little bit… There were so many positives that I was able to say that had given me. I’d helped people, the charity that I’d gone into, I was helping people who were suffering from Lyme disease, which is probably more familiar with people in the US than UK because it’s still not that well known over here. But I was the only person at that charity and I was like, if I hadn’t moved, those people wouldn’t have got the treatment that they needed and they wouldn’t have spoken to me that day. I know it sounds like you’re grasping at straws, but it isn’t. When you look at it, you’re like, Wow, I really felt a sense of purpose, I really helped someone here, that wouldn’t have happened if I was here and it’s not about trying to be trite. It’s not about saying, Oh, well, yeah, that’s great, but I’d rather have a baby. It’s about thinking, why not both? Why can’t you, if for further purpose, somewhere else, have that baby but still just on a different timeline and appreciate how it’s made you a better person, how it’s made you more patient, more compassionate, more aware.

Well, focusing and letting IVF fertility journeys, letting that overtake your life doesn’t help you get a baby and so why not live a full, full, full life? Like you said, you’re still trying. There’s still lots of hope and creating a more positive space in yourself is only going to assist you in becoming the person you want to be in every aspect of your life, including motherhood, hopefully someday.

Yeah. And I’ve heard people say before that have been through this fertility journey, like other tip of the mindset coaches, or just people that have been there. Now, the mother that I am going to be is like next level to what I would have been. What I know now about myself and what I want to pass on to a child and that level of appreciation that I would have for that life coming into mine. That’s not to say that people that go through fertility appreciate children more. Of course not

But you’ve created an inner strength in yourself that you get to take with you for the rest of your life from this experience.

Yeah, and something that I would want to be able to pass on to my child, my children, whatever we’re blessed to have. But knowing that my life is full now and I don’t need that baby to complete me, it would add to our family, it would add to our lives. But there are lots of benefits we have at the moment. Having that flexibility, we’re taking the opportunity while we can, whilst we’ve got the funds and the freedom to go and travel the world. We went abroad three times last year and we’ve already got plans to go to Venice and Ibiza this year and it’s stuff that we just wouldn’t have done before and wouldn’t be able to do when we have children. So we’re like, Okay, well, our lives can be full now and if it stays like this, it’s still full. Whereas if you’re acting like, if you don’t have children, or this doesn’t work out for you, that your life isn’t… You’re not going to be a full person, you’re going to be broken. That’s not what’s going to complete your life. That isn’t what makes you you and that isn’t going to be a place that you come from, or that you approach your fertility journey in an empowered way. It’s going to… That other way when you feel like you are broken or you do need that to complete your week, it has to work this way or by this time or, you know the energy that you’re bringing and the experience that you’re going to have is going to have a massively negative effect on you and I just want people to know that you don’t have to have your happy ending to get to this point. You don’t have to have a guarantee and there is another way to approach your fertility journey. Regardless of whatever the physical blockers are to you getting pregnant as easily as you want to, there’s a hell of a lot of power in mindset, not just from the spiritual, energetic and being happy in yourself, but obviously that jealousy, bitterness, etc. Creates stress and has a physical effect on your body as well and you want to be going into fertility treatment, your fertility journey in top health and that’s not just your physical, that’s your mental as well, because your mental emotional health has an effect on your physical too so even if you didn’t want to talk about it from just a mental emotional perspective.

Yeah, it’s all connected. That’s definitely all. Curious if you… I know you’re choosing right now not to go through any fertility treatments, but how would you, knowing everything you’ve been through and how all of that goes, having gone through it before, what would be your recommendation to women who are either currently in that place of fertility treatments or thinking about entering into it? How would you recommend holding that mindset of positive energy and positive self worth as you go through something and you’re having to… The hard part with fertility treatment is it’s so in your face, like you’ve talked about. It’s in all of your focus. How do you detach enough to keep the positivity throughout that journey? What would you recommend?

Yeah, that’s a really great question. I think for me, certainly in the last round, I just put less pressure on myself and on it working out. I think, like I say, not attaching a certain meaning to it not working that isn’t there, like about this identity of feeling broken, that last one for me, the difference was that I was like, Okay, I’m not putting all my hopes and I’m absolutely having hope. I’m going in with the thought that this absolutely can work. But I didn’t put all of my hopes and dreams and happiness on it. When I did it, I took some time to connect with my partner. We went and did something like when we were in the two week wait, we took some time off, I went to the cinema, I took a social media break, I practiced meditation and visualization, whatever brings you joy or makes you feel connected to yourself and are the things that make you feel more positive and hopeful rather than like I wouldn’t watch anything stressful or depressing or people crying, and this and stuff. I think it really is just looking after yourself, having faith that absolutely it can work out, but having a faith that if it doesn’t do it, you’re going to be okay. And there’s going to be another answer or another step for you to do we’re not doing treatment, we’ve never said never again, but it’s not true for us right now like the physical demands of it, for the eggs that we were receiving, it wasn’t worth that for us. But it was keeping an eye on those positive stories that give me hope and looking towards those positive stories as places of hope and evidence that it does work out rather than things to torture myself with.

Well, I think that’s lovely in the sense, too, that I think sometimes we’re told by our doctors that… and I’m medical I mean, I understand the medical side of it but I think as a patient, sometimes we embody that news so deeply that this is the only next option is the way it’s presented because it’s what they have to offer and I love how you’re able to say, this isn’t what’s right for me right now, this is where I need to create my whole life and it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. It doesn’t have to just be IVF, or I’m no longer wanting to have a baby, there’s so many different paths on our way to find what’s right for our body at any given time like you’re saying, this is what’s right for my mental health and for my relationship with your partner and everything right now. It’s not a one size fits all, and it’s really about finding your own path that doesn’t drag you down into that negativity all the time.

Yeah, absolutely. That was an empowering decision. It wasn’t like, No, I can’t do this anymore. But if you make it from that decision, fine. Like I say, you’re still acknowledging that you’ve reached your threshold and that’s fine. Some might feel like, I need to do it now I’m 39 years old now and some people will be like, Oh, I need to do it now because it’s a certain age where I’ve just let go of that, I used to really stress about it in the sense like, Oh, my children won’t have their grandparents around for as long, and I won’t see my grandchildren for like a, you know, you think about these things. That’s why I didn’t want to leave it for so long. That’s why I feel like some people might think, Oh, I need to do it now, I need to do all of the treatments now but you get a sense when you know that something isn’t working. So if you’re able to take a step back and go, Okay, what do I believe about myself right now? What am I experiencing in my life right now? What do I want to experience? What do I want to gain? Like I still see myself in certain aspects, my identity as a mother and I’m able to visualize that and feel that and hope for it and have faith in it, but I’m also okay if it doesn’t happen and that doesn’t make me someone that wants children less than someone else. Say if you’d have seen me four years ago, four or five years ago, I was an absolutely mad woman. It’s not like I’ve come to accept it, it’s not going to happen for me. It’s not that either, that’s what I want to share, really. It’s not one or the other. But if you can shift your energy from happiness, hope, and expectation of something that you really want, rather than that jealousy, bitterness, why me? I obviously don’t deserve this. There is such power in that, and you’re going… that’s when you shift your perspective on the situation and you’ll be able to better handle and accept the ups and downs and what’s happening and ultimately choose the right path for you because you’re choosing it from a place of that excitement and connection and hope and faith rather than the desperation and anxiety and all the other joyful things that come with.

I love the way you say that. Yes. It’s a hard thing to always put into words because it’s something that you almost feel and embody more than you can put words to but you did a beautiful job putting words to that.

Thank you.

Is there anything else that you would like to leave our listeners with today?

Let me think, I think I’ve covered it all. I think I would just say, Remember that this is something you’re going through, but it’s not something that you are but it can change your life in an amazingly positive way and set you on a path that you didn’t even realize you would be on. I became a coach because of my fertility journey, because I started discovering that world of mindset and changing the way that I feel about myself and that eventually led me to discovering myself, regaining that sense of identity, that purpose, direction, and coaching is something that I’d always had in the back of my mind, but I went through a bit of self-awareness and self-discovery and realized that this was the path that was meant to me and this is what led me there. I wouldn’t have got there otherwise if I’d had children when I first started trying my life would look completely different and that’s not to say that it wouldn’t be good as well, but I wouldn’t be doing and having the impact that I have now, I wouldn’t be leading a truly fulfilling, successful life as a coach, making an impact on others and using the skills that I’ve only acquired because of what happened and what path that sent me on to make their lives better and to rebuild their sense of self worth and make them more resilient and help them find their identity, purpose, passion, to help them to feel good enough because for so long, my fertility struggle made me feel undeserving and unworthy and not good enough. Now I make a living from making women who are struggling with any sense of self-worth or identity crisis, to live a life that they are meant to or help them feel good enough and I wouldn’t change that. I wouldn’t change what I’ve been through, I wouldn’t change the fact that I haven’t been able to have children yet and like I say, that is a place that I never thought I would be. So just know that this path could just take you exactly where you need to go.

That’s beautiful, incredible and the impact that you’re able to have is amazing. I know people are going to want to know where they can learn more about what you do and more on how you’ve been able to create this positive mindset. Where is the best place for people to learn more about you, to reach out to you and to connect with you?

The best place where I spend the majority of my time is probably on Instagram and there is @rosie_milsom_coaching, but I’m sure we’ll share the link, people can come over and I’d love to offer your listeners a little something to help them on that mindset, self-discovery and purpose and passion thing if they’re feeling like they’ve lost a bit of themselves or they want to get a bit of that belief back or feel like they need a bit of a reminder about what really matters to them, aside from fertility, then I think we could have something really great to share with them. So we’ll perhaps give you the details.

Yes, I’ll put all of the links for that in the show notes as well. It’s on the web page for this episode so you can find those there and connect with Rosie and learn more and get the resources from her further there. Rosie, thank you so, so, so much for being willing to come and be so open and sharing so much of your vulnerable and emotional journey. I know it’s going to mean a lot to the women listening on so many different levels. It’s something that goes way deeper than words really can, I really am grateful for you coming on and being willing to share with us today.

Thank you it’s been an absolute pleasure. I really hope that what I shared today has resonated with even one person and made them see themselves or their journey differently. Thank you for inviting me on to share my story, I’ve really enjoyed speaking with you.

All right. Well, thank you so much. This was a gift. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

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